Q & A with Emma Burrows, Associate Partner with PA Consulting

Emma is an experienced Management Consultant with more than 20 years experience in designing, planning and delivering complex programmes for a diverse portfolio of clients across multiple sectors.

As Associate Partner with PA Consulting, Emma is responsible for leading and supporting complex programmes and transformations across the defence and security sector.

Emma is a Chartered Project Professional (ChPP), and recently spoke at APM’s Women in Project Management Conference, as part of a panel of senior project professionals discussing their career journeys in project management.

What would you say your career highlights are to date? And which factors have helped to accelerate your career?

I started out as a commissioned officer in the Royal Air Force where I was responsible for Policing, Intelligence and Security activities. I was afforded some fantastic opportunities here, and would say this was a career highlight as it was absolutely the grounding of who I am today. At 23 years of age, I was leading a squadron of 50 personnel looking after the security of around 3000 families and service personnel. The leadership experiences that I gained provided me with lots of structure and made a huge impact on the person that I am today.

Another career highlight for me was probably also a turning moment in my career, when I became one of the three programme leads for one of the MoD's largest transformation programmes at the time. This stemmed from the 2010 Lord Levene Defence and Security Review. The fact that somebody believed in me enough to give me that opportunity to lead such an important programme of work in itself, was a platform and a catapult for me in terms of where I am today.

There are several key accelerators that have helped me in my career. The first of these is identifying those opportunities to lead, taking ownership and being accountable.

Secondly, and one which has actually been a golden thread throughout my career, has been the ability to see things strategically and think 10 steps ahead. This meant I was often being pulled into opportunities above my grade and I was seen as a bit of a fixer. I don't think I'd ever spent more than about 18 months in any particular role because I was always being pulled out to support novel or complex issues, which is probably why I find myself supporting complex programmes today!

The third accelerator has been finding my tribe – being supported and championed by people who are really invested in me, and people who I genuinely love working with. So, find those people that you enjoy being surrounded by.

What are the challenges that you have faced? What were the lessons that you learned from that journey?

 I don't think you get anywhere really without some challenges, and I think many women would agree with this. Probably the biggest one for me – and still is today – is this burning desire for us all to fit into a box and I hate fitting into boxes. I'm a big advocate for being authentic and that actually we don't have to fit boxes. I think it’s important to be confident enough to challenge back and push the boundaries on boxes. I may not have got promoted as quickly as I'd like to have done and I might not have taken the pathway that some would have expected, but for me it’s about being authentic and doing it your way.

Another challenge is about being taken seriously. I've been in a number of forums and meetings where actually I haven't felt I've had a voice, I've often been spoken over or ‘mansplained’ to, and I still experience that today.

The key here is finding people in a room that can help to advocate for you and hold your voice. Finding advocates and people that can help hold your point of view in a meeting or discussion is really important. So, if you have a great idea, somebody else will say, ‘actually, let's not move off what Emma's saying. I'd really like to hear that in a bit more detail’. I do a huge amount of that myself today in terms of ‘hang on a second’ and not just for females, but for males as well. ‘You know, they've got a good point. I'd like to see that through’. So they get to own that point of view in that discussion and by owning it this actually helps to accelerate their career because people hear their voice, they have knowledge and experiences and have viewpoints that should be taken seriously.

The other thing that I would have done differently is probably advocated for myself more. I can probably come across as quite confident, but I have a huge amount of imposter syndrome and self- doubt. So, believing in myself more and being confident that actually I do know my stuff and that I can own and earn my place has been a long journey.

What do you do differently now when you're in a room and you see somebody else wrongly getting accredited for a piece of work? What do you do?

 There's lots of different subtle ways to do this. You can address it in the room in front of others and call it out that other people have contributed to that work. It's about being confident enough not to be fearful to actually stop people and call it out when you see it, because by only by calling it out, you stop other people behaving that way as well, if that makes sense. I think it’s about being brave enough to do that, or finding others that will support you when you do this, but I know that can be difficult at times.

What would you say are your top tips for women already in the project profession or for those who want to join the profession?

 I've already alluded to looking for opportunities to lead so you know where it presents itself. It might seem a bit daunting, but absolutely take the opportunity to find those chances to step into those spaces. I have also mentioned finding your tribe. It's really important to surround yourself with people that you love working with and that you enjoy, but people that will champion you and create that allyship around you.

The other thing I'd say is constructively challenge. So, if you're going into a meeting, have a point of view. Go in with that point of view because, more often than not, we might go into a meeting and think I've got nothing to add to this. So, you might sit there quietly and you might not actually say anything and you come out of that meeting feeling down, and that people won’t take you seriously. So go in with the point of view and assert it when you can. Storytelling is also a really great tool that you can use to just talk about yourself and your experiences and how people resonate with you and connect with you.

The big one for me is being authentic, as I’ve said before, don't change yourself or anybody else. Dress how you are comfortable because you bring your whole self to work. And you don't need to fit boxes.

The last two things I would say is get a coach. It’s best thing that I've done. I'm also a professional leadership coach myself. It's one of the best things I do, but I also have a coach myself and it has been a game-changer for me, in terms of having that independent person to help you challenge yourself.

The final one is about humour. Quite often I get told that the more senior you get, the more serious you need to be. But absolutely have a sense of humour. I probably start most of my meetings with a really bad dad joke! That's probably what I'm best known for, but humour helps you to connect with people on a very different level, almost immediately. If you can start with a smile and a good joke, it just breaks down those barriers and makes you more human.

What gets you out of bed in the morning?

 The thing that I get out of bed for in the morning is my purpose. I've spent the last 20 years of my career contributing to and defending our nation and wider global security. It is humbling and rewarding in equal measure and I still feel energised by my work and I love the people that I get to work with, colleagues and clients alike.